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My MacBook Pro and I had a wild weekend: I reflowed the solder on its logic board three times in one day, then drilled 60 holes in its bottom case. I first started noticing heat issues about a year ago. My model of MacBook Pro is for too.
And I run mine pretty hard: I’m a programmer for iFixit, and in my spare time, I and make. On an average day, my laptop hovered between 80º and 90º C. One time I saw it climb as high as 102º C—hot enough to boil water. So I tried some simple fixes.
I blew out the inside of my laptop with compressed air. I bought and stopped using it on my lap. I enabled, a program that lets me run my fans at the max speed of 6200 rpm all the time. But it still ran hot. And one day in March, it died. I was working on it when the screen suddenly went black.
When I powered it off and on again, the power light lit, but I got no boot chime and the screen alternated between glitchy and black—it all screamed that something on the. Probably the water-boiling temperatures had caused the board to flex, knocking solder loose from its ball grid arrays. The likely fix? Reflow it: Heat it up until the balls of solder melt back into their assigned spots. I’d never reflowed something before (though I’d read about people doing it ). I thought about sending my laptop off to a professional reflow outfit, but I would’ve had to go a couple weeks without it. Instead, I cracked open the back of my laptop, disconnected from the logic board, and turned the oven up to 340º F.
I put my $900 part on a cookie sheet and baked it for seven nerveracking minutes. After it cooled, I, put it all back together, and cheered when it booted. It ran great for the next eight months. Temperatures averaged in the 60s and 70s C—although recently, they began creeping up again. Then, two weeks ago, it died again.
Same story: It was working one minute, then the next minute it went completely black. Again, no boot chime. I had a hunch that the problem was related to the thermal paste: When I disassembled it the first time, I had to scrape some thermal pads from under the Thunderbolt controller and the system hub. This left a large gap between the heat spreader and the chip. I’d tried to fill the gap with an extra big gob of thermal paste, but I suspected that the paste hadn’t gotten a good seal.
So after putting my logic board through another oven treatment, I bought a couple of thin copper sheets, cut them down to size, and thermal pasted them into the spaces under the chips. It booted and ran again—until Friday. So Saturday, a friend and I played laptop doctor all day. We started by trying to locally apply heat to the logic board with a.
Since we didn’t have an, we had to eyeball it, waiting for the solder to look a little gooey and the board to smell like it was cooking (the smell is somewhere between baking cookies and burning plastic). We tried to aim the gun at the chips where I thought there was a problem, and we shielded more sensitive parts with little strips of aluminum foil. After that first reflow, the computer booted and ran, but just for an hour. The second attempt, we tried using the heat gun again, but this time it wouldn’t boot. Finally, we sent it back into the oven—for seven and a half minutes, in case getting it a little hotter made a difference. And while it baked, we decided it was time to break out the bigger guns.
That is, we pulled out a drill. With a 1/16” bit, we drilled holes in the bottom case, under the fans (we figured out where the blades of the fan were exposed based on the dust pattern stuck to the inside of the bottom case). The worked: The boot chime rang. The screen glowed. The fans blew. I recently repaired an Early 2011 MacBook Pro like this one.
They do run hot, and have almost no air intakes – the rear vent itself is the largest intake on the machine. The keyboard is covered by a plastic sheet underneath, so the belief that the keyboard serves as an intake is an unfounded one. I have a Late 2011 MacBook Pro with a damaged Logic Board that is occasionally used for 3D work, and since it never leaves my desk, I removed the bottom case and stood the machine up so the rear vent is facing upward since I’m sure the machine would already be dead now if I hadn’t taken such drastic measures.
I also have a MacBook Air (Mid 2012 13″) that has seen temperates as high as 107C – above Intel’s recommended Tjunction Max temperature – without a thermal shutdown. As a former Apple technician (ACMT) and owner of more than 30 Apple machines both new and old, I can say with confidence that the machines look great and structurally are quite sound, but their cooling systems leave a lot to be desired. U R Kidding, right?
There are so many things wrong with this. Between the complete lack of correct vocabulary in describing parts and components and lack of proper troubleshooting and understanding the described symptoms (as someone already pointed out) this clown has no clue. PLEASE NO ONE EVER TRY AND REPEAT THIS.
Not everything on a main logic board is designed for oven baking-i.e. Extreme heat. If step one had been actually understanding what the symptoms were pointing to and then performing proper component isolation like a true technician then maybe these conclusions could have been proven unfounded. I guarantee baking it in the oven that many times broke another IC and related busses, etc. As much as you want to pretend that “reflowing” actually worked. I also guarantee you didn’t do any of this in a properly grounded and static protected environment.
Apple’s Engineerig teams have oodles of applied thermal dynamics experience and I disagree completely with the previous comment that their designs are lacking. First, the case being closed forces the airflow out the back horizontally pulling it away from the heatsink. The feet lift the panel to allow natural air to flow under the laptop on a flat surface. Drilling holes like those shown stop air from being pulled across and away the heatsink as designed and instead just up through the holes and out-less effective. TwoCookedMacs I have TWO MacBook Pro’s of different year models that have BOTH died from thermal overload issues. Apple thermal design on the MBP line is pathetic.
The first was repaired under an extended warranty that they finally owned up to. The second is currently a brick. There are two pending class action suits facing Apple regarding the model year for the dead MBP I own. Apple seem to be ignoring it in the hope that we’ll lose interest as the machines age.
I will never buy another MBP again. They’re atrociously bad for overheat death.
I may try an oven reflow just for the sake of it. I have nothing to lose except a brick.
I am extremely skeptical that Apple will open an extended warranty fix for a 3.5 year old laptop. My iMac on the other hand is designed with real thermal capacity.
It has a real set of vents, a lovely vertical air path and a huge single silent fan that I never hear. The MBP fans put a vacumm cleaner to shame. If you must buy a MBP, don’t run it hot and hard. GonFreecs Apple’s design is very specific, and as mentioned previously driving heat away from the heatsink is the best way to cool it down and the most effective. Dust and dirt is the biggest culprit and the operating temperature stated on the website is (50° to 95° F). This is EXTERNAL temp, so the inside may be higher but external should not exceed this. Using third party temp checkers is a terrible idea.
They will not give accurate results and running those sorts of apps on a computer will increase cpu usage so they will contribute to cpu core temp. The bottom case is also meant to get warm, it radiates heat away from the internals of the computer. Third, they should not be compared to iMacs. It is evident that some in the above threads seem to think that the iMac is better with heat, That is because it has 3 fans. 3 LARGE fans. One for the cpu, one for the hard drive and one for the optical drive. The logic board has an enormous heatsink and the graphics card has one too.
People are ready to sue Apple etc when they have no idea how the internal components work or why they are assembled the way they are. Keep your machine clean, don’t run 30 third party monitoring apps for your battery and cpu etc and try not to have mackeeper installed. Bad software is a bigger contributor than most people think. Irrelevant We live in a world of manufacturing where If you get 3 years out of a product, you should be really happy. Trying to hold on to it longer than that is an act of futility. The fact that you spent so much time trying to resurrect your clearly destroyed MBP rather than just buy a new one, since it appears that you can afford it, is slightly ridiculous. Sure, it worked.
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Until you write another article explaining what you oven-fried in the process a few weeks from now. I wouldn’t let a small child use this machine, because who knows what kind of dangers you have exposed it to. Also, you have failed to realized that any laptop, and certainly MBP’s, are not designed as a do-it-all product 100% all-the-time. Power users need to understand that you can’t run your machine 24/7 and expect it to live to see it’s 3rd birthday. If you kept your flat-screen television on all-day everyday playing blu-rays, do you really thing it would last 3 years?
I am also a Programmer, so what I do on my MBP, is simply code, check email, browse the net, listen to music, etc. Oh and I also have an Air which I do most of the same things, except for maybe the music bit. I also have a decent Linux desktop that I use for more power computing if need be.
I have had all these machines for well over 4 years (except the Air, as it replaced my other 2007 MBP, just last year, which still runs, but you can no longer update the OS). So, why is that I have all these machines that have gone far beyond their extended life expectancy, yet you seem to have bricked yours so quickly? Simply care dude. I took care of my stuff and it has survived well longer than Apple expected it to. Instead of blaming the product, blame yourself for your inability to use and take care of things the way you should. You work for a site that is supposed to help you repair things, not slander the company that makes them.
Leave your judgmental comments at the door next time you post an article about how to “fix” something. If that’s what we’re calling this. Duane Ten minutes’ research into MBP2011s would have told you the source of your problem and also the most consistently successful repair for it (reballing with lead solder, $140 on average). You’re welcome to do with your property as you wish, but please don’t suggest a potentially board-destroying approach as a useful solution when others far less radical exist. I was fortunate enough to work for an organization that bought a 3 year warranty on my MPB2011 and had first dibs on replacement mobos, but many weren’t.
Stick a motherboard in a cooking oven? Several years back I read an analysis of computer failure produced by HP.
They found that overheating was the most common cause of failure – and that overheating caused problems inside the chips – causing thermal runaway. But the problem was “cascading”. The first overheating would find the weakest chip (most susceptible to overheating) and cause it to overheat and then put stress on other parts of the same chip. And the resulting failure would also put stress on other chips in the system.
The result was more chips more prone to overheating. The solution was two-fold – prevent the first overheating (eg clean the “dust blanket”) and produce better chips (since HP was making many of their own chips at the time.) At this point, I would guess that you have a very fragile machine which will need to be kept very cool if you want it to keep working. (And, in my experience, the reflow trick worked mostly because of a poor initial job with the soldering — allowing relatively minor movement to break the solder.). Your liquid cool unit leaked out most likely – what you’ve done is a temporary fix (making the processor air cooled instead of liquid cooled). The cooling units fail when people hold their laptop (closed) like a book and squeeze a bit too hard against the sides near the hinge. It has a tendency to flex the cooling unit and the tubes fail and leak out.
This I know because the same thing happened to me and all it took was a new cooling unit to replace the old – however, I waited too long and it fried my motherboard. Gary I’ve got an early 2011 15″ with a 6750, and my GPU started to develop problems three years and one day after I purchased it. The integrated graphics still work, but the AMD GPU is NF. I am currently running Linux on it because I can control which GPU is used at boot but I miss having an external monitor ( which Apple disabled on the integrated GPU to get the graphics switching working, I guess).
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I am sorely tempted to try this – I thought about buying a replacement logic board but I don’t want to go through this BS again. If I could find a reputable facility to do the re-ball I’d consider that too but so far the ones I’ve seen seem to be kids with spudgers and heat guns. Regardless it’s BS that a $2500 laptop dies after three years in huge numbers and Apple is ignoring the issue. Sam Rose The “fact” of the matter is that the temperatures were falling well into a catagory that is completely and utterly unreasonable. He didn’t really need to diagnose that, perhaps he could have tried another solution first but using that as an excuse to denounce him is well, whiney and self righteous.
There’s clearly been an overwhelming amount of overheating issues with this model which some commentors seem to blindly ignore. Simply asserting “well apple knows best” is stupid at best. As for drawing the heat away, no. Most people who build PC hardware know that pushing from the outside is better. I’d also argue that he’s merely increased airflow by doing as such, his choice and would seem to be backed up with evidence; ie his temps dropped a further 20 degrees after his resetting attempts.
Pointing out a lack of terminology is just plain unhelpful. I suggest you go back to your Apple School of Misinformation and kindly shut the fuck up. Any reasonably intelligent person understands this mod is extreme and wouldn’t need to be told otherwise. Anyone who thinks it’s reasonable to expect that you cannot run a laptop 24/7 is an idiot. Making comparisons to screens and mechanical components is similarly stupid.
I run tablets, phones, pcs, fridges; all 24/7. You turn screens off to save the brightness and mechanical components generally turn themselves off if not in use. I’ve also had hard drives last 5 years, and whilst this is anecdotal of course I don’t think it unreasonable to expect this kind of hardware to run likewise over 24/7 usage (remember, mechanical devices spin down even if the computer is on). Certainly they shouldn’t be failing from 102 degree heat! If Apple didn’t intend this device to run sustainably over extended usage then (although laughable), they should damn well say. Instead of, you know, interpretting it as such? Once again thankyou to the article writer I will be sure to show my friend who will have great amusement!
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That Mac Guy Heatguns are only $10 or $20 at the hardware store (don’t bother with expensive ones). MBP early 2008 model, with the usual graphics/Nvidia chip issue. Failed/wouldn’t boot 4 years after purchase, and just one month after warranty extension end date we got for the Nvida settlement. Take out logic board, clean thermal paste off CPU/GPU chip, wrap board in foil and cut opening for the chip. On a flat heat resistant surface outside, blow over chip with heatgun slowly get closer, one or two minutes max. Leave alone for at least an hour, then reapply thermal paste (a small drop in the middle), reassemble the bastard and you should be good for 3 months to 1 year. Repeat again when fails.
Do not onsell your MBP, no one wants your problems. Give it to your family or friend so you can fix it again later. Doing it in an oven will create a chemical stink and may cause other components to fail prematurely. John English I wonder if it ever occurred to that guy that maybe the fans weren’t designed to be going full chat 24/7 and that installing overriding software might have made the problem worse. I mean what kind of programming for iFixIt would make it run that hot? It’s not like he’s probably making something that’s super CPU heavy unless he has a really crappy IDE and also is mining bitcoins in the background or something equally retarded. I don’t recall any MacBook Pro running cool enough to be an actual laptop for many years, I’m assuming this dude just installed random temperature monitoring software and took it as gospel.
Most computers I’ve seen die because of “heat” were actually just filthy inside because of pets/smoking/general slobbiness. If he’s really using it for work and this was an actual problem, just buy a new one. It’s 2014 so that model is 5 years old.
Unless he’s doing something graphically intensive (lol no) then just get a MacBook Air. This article makes me question the competence of iFixIt. TJ First of all the root cause of this is the faulty AMD graphics chip, not the thermal design of the macbook pro. The AMD graphics chip goes above it’s specified heat generation quota for a given load. This doesn’t happen for all night coding sessions, this only happens when you play 3D games for hours on end, and not doing “work.” Running the fans at full blast all the time does NOT help. In fact, you may have been heating other parts of the board up due to the increase in the heat transfer coefficient. Those fans are only designed to be at full speed for short periods of time.
Again, the GPU should not be generating as much heat as it does, because it’s a faulty design, and this is exacerbated by excessive 3D gaming, instead of doing work on your macbook PRO. So we can take away from this, that iFixit’s programmers are too busy playing 3D games and blogging about problems with their macbook pro as a result of them playing too many 3D games, instead of programming and doing work.
As a result, instead of applying scientific principles to determine the root cause, said programmer just ends up cooking his laptop in an oven based on a hunch, taking a hand drill and drilling holes in the case (with no reason other than that they are right by the fan, thereby all the cool air that comes in completely bypasses the entire pc board and just exists out the exhaust vents) and then spends more time NOT working by making a blog post about it. What an incredible display of how to avoid critical thinking skills by demonstrating multiple fallacies in a single blog post! Stagr.lee In reply to “U R Kidding, right?” comment I also guarantee you didn’t do any of this in a properly grounded and static protected environment. This is obvious trolling on a site dedicated to people who DIY repairs and can take advice good or bad I would imagine more than a few ifixit readers own the “I void warranties” t-shirt. Apple’s Engineering teams have oodles of applied thermal dynamics experience and I disagree completely with the previous comment that their designs are lacking. I completely lost faith in Apple thermal designs after diving into the problems of the 1st gen Time Capsule. The orginal Time Capsule is an absolute mess.
I have done the Eutechnics mods on a 1st gen time capsule and can attest that it is a very ingenious fix and quite similar to drilling a Mac Pro for airflow. My 2011 MacBook Pro suffers from overheating and will likely open up the bottom for airflow if it gets any worse. David Sorry – but baking it at 340F did not reflow the BGA balls.
Tin/lead eutectic solder (the solder with the lowest melting point available) reflows at 361F. The alloy used by Apple is probably RoHS compliant, so that means it has no leadand subsequently a much higher liquidus temperature. Most likely over 400F. You probably removed some moisture from the part during the bake, and improved airflow by adding the holes. Redoing some thermal grease helped move the heat off the die too. One thing you don’t know, or at least address, is the difference in thermal conductivity of the paste used by Apple and the paste you used. Tom s Sorry, you did not reflow anything.
Tin-Lead eutectic solder reflows at 183C. SAC solder, the more likely choice on your modern board (nobody uses lead solder in the commercial industry any longer) reflows above 200C, most common ones around 220C. Your 340 F oven only reaches 171.1 C. More likely it was the thermal paste reapplication that improved cooling and finally putting better ventilation in the unit with the holes that solved your issue. Likely lucky it works after baking.
NOT recommended. Jessa You guys know I love iFixit, but let’s talk. Thermal paste monkey business–fine. Cooking your motherboard?
This is a bad idea. Can we call a spade a spade on this reballing/reflowing of chips? It is not a good repair. My Dad primarily fixes things with superglue and duct tape.
(Including his teeth. Yes, that’s right. I said teeth.) THIS IS NOT FIXING. Reflowing bad chips is exactly the samebut worse, since you’re gonna break other stuff. Commenter David is right–you are NOT reflowing anything–physically impossible at 340F.
This is one of those things like putting a phone in rice. It “seems” like it would make sense–cracked solder balls, just heat it up and reflow it, yeah!
I’m not an expert on laptop repair, but there seems to be a lot of pushback in the repair community on this idea. I can say for sure that unless you hit 217C you’re not melting the type of solder used in modern devices. I’ve seen it on the iPhone 4s WiFi chip, same deal—it is a chip problem. Mildly heating the chip brings back function–but it will fail again.
Why should I care what you do with your laptop? Here’s why:–there IS a repair out there for this. Replacement of the GPU with a new one. Bad chip out, good chip in. The motherboard itself is not a black box.
You can learn to fix it, or consider sending it out to someone who can fix it as a tool for your repair. When we spread the word about duct tape and superglue “fixes” that can cause someone to ruin what WAS a PERFECTLY REPAIRABLE board—–that is not iFixit, that’s uBROKEIT, no? That’ll be two cents. Firstly, the problem is not in the balls, it is in the chip. Lead free solder is used in Thinkpad T520 laptops which have discrete GPUs that can mine litecoin using CUDA for months on end with no problem. Every laptop for the past seven or so years has used lead free solder balls, and so many of them work JUST FINE!
STOP SPREADING THIS!! It is the CHIP! The CHIP is dead. So let’s go over this again. The following can be said for your laptop. 1) No ventilation holes.
2) Video memory boils with no cooling. 3) Video memory is right under GPU. 4) GPU shares heatsink with CPU. 5) CPU is a QUAD CORE SANDY BRIDGE. I couldn’t destroy your GPU faster with a blowtorch than you could with just watching youtube. This is the worst thermal design short of the DV9000.
Now, let’s go over the ball related mess. 1) 340f is 171c. 2) 171c won’t melt leaded solder balls(180f melting point), much less the lead free balls that melt around 217c. They actually melt higher on initial melt. You can solder a thermocouple to a GPU as you solder it and watch with a camera zoomed in on the balls under the chip, you don’t really get melting until 220s. 3) The temperature of the balls is going to be lower than the temperature of the air in the oven. For example with a professional hot air station, to get a temperature of 225 under the balls, I ramp it to 245.
So your solder balls are probably getting to 150c, 160c maybe. This is not a reflow. What you are doing is messing with the actual die of the chip itself. This is where the failure has occurred. This is a zombie chip, and will be dead in very short time. You can see for yourself by simply heating the chip to 120c for a few minutes that you can fix it temporarily, even though this is 100c too low to melt lead free solder. Google a bit on flip chip design for more detail on how these chips are made and why they are more prone to failure than other types of BGA packages/.
This is not repair. This is jerry rigging, which is TOTALLY COOL AND AWESOME AND AMAZING so long as it is not touted as repair. It gives the wrong idea. If you call something jerry rigged, jerry rigged, and it fails in 30 days, hey, who cares right? But if you call it repaired and it fails again in 30 days, it lowers consumer confidence in repair.
And that’s a crap thing to do.:(. I’m sorry, but this was stupid. I have had several MacBook Pros over the years. My current one is a late 2013 MacBook Pro 15inch. All of them have ran hot from time to time depending on what I was doing with them at the time. If yours ran hot for no good reason, it’s obvious you had a defect.
Why not allow Apple to address it? If you’re out of warranty, and there are no visible signs of accidental damage, then you could have paid their flat rate repair fee to have it send off to a repair depot. I love repairing things on my own, and I’ve done a lot of upgrading, but I would never drill holes into the bottom of my MacBook Pro. A and W Computers Sorry this is such a bad idea. First, clean the dang fans. Dirty fans run slower and move less air.
Second and more important, any machine over 2 years old ( unless under Applecare as it will void warranty) should have the crappy thermal paste removed and replaced with something better. ( I use Arctic Silver 5 ) All normal paste dries out after 1-2 years and that means less heat transferred to the heat sink and more heat at the chip. I have worked on thousands of Apple machines and these 2 things solve 99% of heat issues.
I also use SMC fan control but I set the minimum speed about 20% higher than stock and only advise wide open when using Handbrake or other CPU intensive programs, and then turn it back down when down. Running the fans above 70% all the time will end their life much sooner than normal. A 20% raise will not affect fan life and it keeps the temps under 110F for every machine I have done this with. Most machines will stay under 100F. As others have pointed out Apple designs an Air Flow pattern for cooling and the new holes disrupt that. This really is sad for an iFixIt Employee to not even clean the fans first or even think about the thermal paste. All companies use cheap non-conductive paste so it can be slathered on without shorting anything in the area out.
Artic Silver 5 is conductive so it must be applied carefully and all that is needed is a very thin layer ( I use a single edge razor blade to apply it ) to fill in the tiny voids in the 2 matting metals. More is not better and will actually hinder heat transfer. I thought iFixIt had some knowledge but this makes me wonder.
I have been working on Computers since 1986 and also have a background in Electronics. My 3.6 cents. ( due to inflation ). Nelson L Nice fix! I had one similar.
MBP 13″ 2009 -removed a. 5″ thick square of dust where the fan buts up to the screen of the computer. Once I removed that, I achieved 50°c with the single fan (on light web browsing duty) -Next, I added rubber bumpers to the bottom of my MacBook, lifting it.5″ off my working surfaces.
This allows the metal case to let off heat, which led to a 5-10°c difference (on light web browsing duty) I’m inspired and interested enough to try a 1″ hole with mesh covering under my mac though. This might increase my cooling while on games or in HD streaming. Just repaired my 2008 MBP with a heat gun. Tested on a dime with some solder first to get correct timing in melting the flux. After that another test on a scavenged printboard to make sure the heat would not lose SMD components on the other side of the motherboard.
Eventually I placed the mainboard on tinfoil to redirect excessive heat from the components on that side, I also covered the top with tinfoil except for the NVIDIA I needed to reflow. I had some Arctic Silver heatpaste left from a XBOX 360 repair and eventually I am now happy to report all is working again. My 2009 MBP will probably need the same treatment someday because these heat problems are indeed severe.
Pat Goodyear I agree with Louis. I have been an electronics technician for over 40 years.
The lowest melt solder is 361 deg f. That is 63-37 sn-pb eutectic solder. Apple products are made using lead free solders and depending on the particular alloy can be anywhere from 50-70 degrees hotter melt. When I reflow solder I use 600 deg for eutectic and 700 for lead free. I suspect the chip is overheating and opening up, I suspect the reheating stabilized the internals until such time as the thermal cycle again caused a malfunction. I am not a fan of stacked electronics as the top piece acts as the heat sink for the lower chip and ends up over heating.
Buy a well engineered PC. Digidoc Glad it worked for you. You have the right idea but the execution could have been better though. Your reflowing of the board was fine (heck, the worst you’ll end up with is a non-functioning logic board, but since it was a doorstop anyways you had nothing to lose), so I can’t see why some people are complaining about that. No, baking it in an oven won’t break the board or any of the components on it. That’s how the thing was soldered in the first place from the factory!
The holes on the bottom of the laptop though. Umm yeah, we need to talk about that.:D Without some kind of template it’s really tough to get a good hole pattern and the end result looks amateur-ish. Instead of a drill bit you should have used a 1 1/2″ hole saw to cut a single round hole (remember to put a piece of scrap wood underneath the workpiece when you saw into it too), then used a half-round file to de-burr the hole. Once you had the hole you could cover it from the side that faces the logic board with a piece of “modder’s mesh” and secure it in place with epoxy.
The end result would look a lot more professional and would actually require less work than trying to drill individual ventilation holes. David Hughes Could it be that dust is a major contributor to overheating? If, like me, you have your computer(s) in an old dusty environment airflow is bound to gradually suffer. Why are easily cleaned air filters not part of the original design? Cars (automobiles) all have air filters which presumably are mainly designed to prevent modern engine sensors from working properly. I have recently purchased a new Mac Pro and am considering making a filter for it to sit on but am not sure if slightly restricting the air intake would cause more harm than good. In any case the Mac Pro is the only Apple product that is easy to access so probably not worth the effort.
Kernal Lars I think everyone agrees that heat is the culprit for malfunction in the MBP? Remember Apple engineers know this is a problem, the fix is tough trying to stay slim & trim. I guess I don’t understand the oven theory? Heat reduces the life of any machine so why the oven when a good cleaning would do the job? I read no bed? That really is a no no for air circulation and the lap is bad enough-but they are laptops right? What happens when you put any kind of obstruction of air flow on the radiator of your car?
Yes it cooks, a dirty Radiator plunged with debre is the same as a computer. Another thing is the GAMES-I never run those on my computer and it’s BS when they say they won’t hurt the Computer, it takes to much power witch over heats the machine and there you have heat? Has anyone thought about the battery, I know the MBP has the best in the business but they can be faulty As well.
The Battery will put out termendus heat depending on the draw, just a thought? Keep it CLEAN guys. Sergio Hi there, to everyone with the graphic problem I suggest you read this article: I have a MBP 2010 with the graphic problem, thanks to the GFX card switch: – my mac now work beautifully Even if the screen is not performing as it used to.
If you can’t start your mac at all try restarting it with extensions off (left shift key at startup) and then installing GFX card. With reference to overheating, I believe it is due to the dust, if you remove the fans, there is no need to remove the motherboard or anything else (so you’ll also avoid the problem of reapplying the paste), You will notice that all the dust collects at the exit of the fans as the air enters the ducts.
Get a toothbrush and get it all clean. Resist the temptation of drilling holes and clean the fans instead!!!). What a bunch picky ASS HOLES!!
Holes in the bottom of your computer? A used bottom cane purchased on eBay for a few dollars, big deal. If it works, that is what matters, besides, who looks at the bottom of your laptop anyway? The laptop police? I have cooked may 2007 & 2008 MacBook Pro logicboards and they all work fine. The big secret is to throughly clean the board, top and bottom, I use isotropic alcohol and “Q Tips”.
Especially in and around the GPU chip and others. I use an aluminum pan lined with foil, that is just large enough to hold the board in place.
It needs to be setting absolutely level and flat. I cook it at 370º/380º for 7 minutes. Turn the oven off, open the oven door to let the oven cool down.
Leave everything alone, as is DO NOT MOVE THE TRAY, let it set for at least 1 hour so everything is now absolutely back to normal temperatures. Once done, I make sure all of the dust and dirt has been removed from the laptop case and internal part, “DUST BUNNIES” Clean the heatsink tubes and then replace the thermal grease, “Arctic Silver #5”.
There actually are bits of ground up silver in this paste, this is why it costs so much more that other compounds. Once this has been done the laptop will last for a long time if taken care of properly. Please note: I love “iFixit”. Lets face it, baking is a hail Mary. Risky, too many variables to be a sure-fire solution, e.g. Melting points of what I imagine is a great variety of different solder formulas.
But if the motherboard is dead otherwise, why not try. Its a worthy DIY suggestion but should be labeled a DIY-HM (Hail Mary). The holes, you say they impact temperature but where is the sensor?
Is it at the CPU? The fans are now sucking in cooler air and spitting it out. I see that this possibly reduces cooling where it is actually needed. As I see it, the air intake is through the keyboard so its not like the fans are in a sealed container. I think perhaps the best solution for overheating is re-thermal pasting.
It makes sense that the paste deteriorates with time, and it is important that the contact with the heatsink is as true as true can be. Acky Hi all, just chiming in on my experience with this. My early 2011 MBP carked it after 3 years. Had the logic board replaced by Apple. 2.5 years later it happened again but the repair program has ended.
Under Australian consumer law, we have protections that ensure products must last a reasonable amount of time and I suppose 2.5 yeah is a bit short for a mobo so Apple is refunding me $649 AUD and suggested I buy a new MBP (yeah right lol). Anyway this laptop won’t boot into OS X. I thought I might just run linux with the integrated GPU but fuck it, lets give this a go. I’ve watched a lot of Louis Rossmann videos about reflowing and how it’s bullshit so instead of paying some fuckers $500 to reflow the chip, I figured I’d try baking it. I followed the author’s instructions. Baked at 170°C for 7 mins. Replaced the thermal paste with Arctic Silver and drilled the fuck out of my back cover.
I used a 3d printed drill guide so it looks a lot neater than the author’s (it’s an isosceles triangle grid pattern). Now with the laptop flat on the table, no load and fans at 6.2K RPM, it sits between 42-48°C. With the back of the laptop lifted up a little, it gets down to a stable 38°C. Drew Lieb Thanks for the idea! I’m late to the party but now the proud owner of yet another. failed Apple product. I will copy the drilling idea, should the computer boot after a proper apple-pie in the oven, that is ( nothing to lose at this point as flat-rate repair is history, replacement chips unavailable, and Apple refusing to offer a single option today).
So many stupid comments above from people claiming to understand thermodynamics when they clearly have no idea. Cooling requires effluent AND influent air. Outside air is cooler than what’s inside. Decrease influent temps and cooling efficiency improves (period). It’s the transfer of heat energy.
High energy to low energy. The vents replace a bottleneck with a highway even ignoring that the fan blows directly through the heatsink assembly which only further improves cooling efficiency. Air doesn’t need to go directly around every last millimeter of componantry inside, as the computer body itself is a massive heatsink. The holes drilled quite effectively add additional cooling where it is needed most, over the gpu heatsink. The downside is the introduction of dust. Fortunately, the air is in and out and the dust would only build up at the fan vents. Still, more frequent cleaning would be recommended.
DIY filter would be taping some folded cheese-cloth over the Jerry rigged intake vent.I Those defending Apple designs clearly haven’t repaired any of their BS AC adapters with the coaxial cord design which is aesthic, rather than a functional choice. Maybe it’s economic, as those run for $80/per. Apple places looks as priority over function. Designers look at more than one variable It’s all a compromise between aesthetics, longevity, performance, cost, etc. Apple does not prioritize longevity.Speaking of failed Apple computers My personal collection: failed beige g3 233 mhz motherboard, failed imac g5 capacitor (fixed under applecare; failed again due to same faulty capacitors, outside of warranty one year later), failed 2007 nvidia MacBook Pro covered by out of warranty extension, now a late 2011 MBP ATI Failure.
Apple can do better, as my 2000 “pismo” 400 mhz G3 laptop proves, the only non-lemon I’ve owned. After 20 years of brand loyalty, Apple has lost me but y’all keep playing fanboy! Harrison As a person who does component level repair on these computers, please do not do this. Drilling the holes may help a bit with temps, but the reason the temps are high and that the computer dies is because of defective graphics cards in the computer. Reflowing/reballing a graphics card is not a real fix.
The issue is not cracked balls (they need to get to around 180C to crack) but a failed chip. Th only true fix is to replace the graphics chip with a brand new one made 2016 or later. Have fun finding a new chip though because 99% of the chips that are advertised as new are actually defective chips that someone just reballed and changed the date code. So unless you have some great connections to Chinese chip manufactures or know someone who does, it may be time to get a new computer.
Randy Petrus Saranadze, I have a late 2011 MBP 17″ with a burnt GPU also. Your idea of a heatsink is a very interesting idea I must think about some more.
At the moment my immediate fix is thru Amazon, a company TecDepo offers to replace the whole board with a 2016 GPU upgrade to it (approx $850) but once it’s home again the issue of heat is still something I want to address in some way. Some have commented holes in the bottom of the case destroy the intended airflow path, (if it’s small holes or 2 large holes no matter) some have said that may be so but taken as a whole the increased airflow would provide cooling for all components enclosed so the alteration in air pattern would not be as bad an issue, and some have said they have added the holes and temps have dropped, supposing GPU and CPU temps follow suit I presume.
I make no negative judgment on IFIXIT for attempting some fix to this MBP problem, he had nothing to lose really. Apple has left us consumers on our own with this problem so inventiveness and ingenuity can be the only answer, unless planned obsolescence / poor design is ‘cool’ for consumers to swallow now. I will be exploring other possibilities also but your heatsink idea is noteworthy as they are literally designed for this purpose LOL. Combining your idea + adding a cooling pad with fans would seem at the moment a fixeven though it seems I would end up with a tower not a laptop in the end depending on the fins. Holes in the bottom plus a heatsink? An easily replaceable dust filter wouldn’t be a problem, those are sold already. Anyway thanks for your input.
Thanks for all your posts, ill be sure to check them out. I dont know how Most wanted worked for me on 64 mb, and it wasnt entirely on low settings, i put the cars settings on highest and the rest was about medium ive played colin mcrae 3 already, nfs hot pursuit 2 aswell. I doubt colin mcrae 04 would work. Ive played porsche unleashed on ps1 before didnt really like it much, ive also played nfs high stakes/road challenge on ps1. NFS is one of my favorite series, and ill check out midtown madness i will also check out midnight club 2. Once again, thanks for all your posts:).
I like to get my games 'the free way', i got trackmania nations forever on steam for free, it literally costs nothing to download it, sadly united forever costs about 30 euro so idk i might try and find a 'free way' to get it. Can i play united forever if its downloaded from some other place that isnt steam and still play online and have all the features in the original one? Iviqrr I figured, Anyways we don't condone piracy around here and Admitting to pirating video games is against the rules and you won't get any help here about acquiring games illegally.
If you wish to play the game and access all the features then you need to buy it if you don't feel the game is worth the price then you can do what i did and simply not buy it. I played the free version of track mania and enjoyed it but didn't feel the price was worth it so never got united forever.
I am sorry to say that i do not wish anymore racing games, my parents and i were in a car acident yesterday. Im still in shock and even though it seems a bit funny i do not dare to play racing games, atleast not until this whole mess cleans up. The car was hit by a mecedes e220 i bellive, it wrecked the left rear of the car and it is no longer worthy of the road.
I give a big thanks to all of you who have posted these fun games but please do not post for some time atleast, you can still post mmorpg's like WoW that would work on my pc. Big thanks to everyone who posted here once again:). QUOTE='Iviqrr'I am sorry to say that i do not wish anymore racing games, my parents and i were in a car acident yesterday.
Im still in shock and even though it seems a bit funny i do not dare to play racing games, atleast not until this whole mess cleans up. The car was hit by a mecedes e220 i bellive, it wrecked the left rear of the car and it is no longer worthy of the road. I give a big thanks to all of you who have posted these fun games but please do not post for some time atleast, you can still post mmorpg's like WoW that would work on my pc. Big thanks to everyone who posted here once again:) Allods Online - best free WoW clone on the Internet.
Good news:D the car crash on wendesday, it didnt turn out so bad afterall my parrents are gonna get about 10.000/20.000 from insurance for the damage thats been done and im getting a new pc:D the pc will be about 2.0/2.5 ghz, atleast 1 gb ram, graphic's card 128mb - 256mb only thing that i dont know is the disk space:/ i need 25 gb's for WoW. From now on feel free to post racing games for these spec's:) Iviqrr What the hell's the point of that computer? That's 6+ years out of date, at least. Unless you're gonna get something vaguely modern, why bother? Idk yet have to wait a month for the whole insurance stuff to clear up and for us to get the money (were definetly getting it because this guy is trying to lie his way out of it, badly) and i was scrolling through the system requirements for some of the newer games like sfIV, gta IV, mafia 2, call of duty 4,5,6,7. And i think i have the most perfect system requirements written down on paper intel core2 quad core 2.5 ghz 3/4 gb ram 500 gb hard disk (or higher) 1 gb graphic card (idk which one but my dad is a pc nerd and he'll probly get me the best 1 gb there is) and i might also get a joystick for sfIV:P i cant wait for the pc, its a big change from the trash i have now xD.